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Post by Admin on Oct 1, 2017 20:17:07 GMT -6
Study Begins: October 1, 2017 Discussion Begins: October 8, 2017
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2 Cor 8:6 Accordingly, we urged Titus that as he had started, so he should complete among you this act of grace. 7 But as you excel in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all earnestness, and in our love for you—see that you excel in this act of grace also. 8 I say this not as a command, but to prove by the earnestness of others that your love also is genuine. 9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich. 10 And in this matter I give my judgment: this benefits you, who a year ago started not only to do this work but also to desire to do it. 11 So now finish doing it as well, so that your readiness in desiring it may be matched by your completing it out of what you have. 12 For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have. 13 For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness 14 your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness. 15 As it is written, “Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack.”English Standard Version
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john
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Post by john on Oct 2, 2017 15:59:06 GMT -6
Accordingly, we urged Titus that as he had started, so he should complete among you this act of grace. But as you excel in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all earnestness, and in our love for you—see that you excel in this act of grace also. I say this not as a command, but to prove by the earnestness of others that your love also is genuine.
Paul is encouraging the Corinthians to "finish what they start." It is important that we as the Body of Christ follow through no matter the difficulty on what we have started in the name of Jesus Christ. What we do reflects on the Father. Often we start a project with zeal in the grace that God has prepared for us but when the going gets tough we lose interest or energy. Others are watching what we do and Paul encourages us here to be aware.
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john
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Post by john on Oct 5, 2017 14:54:57 GMT -6
"For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich. "
We do not understand "God's economy." Jesus the King of kings, humbled himself (became poor) coming down from his throne in heaven seated at the right hand of the Father, so that we (poor in spirit) might be elevated as adopted sons of our heavenly Father. How do we apply this economic principle in our lives with others? Jesus requires it of us. Doesn't he?
We spend most of our "Christian walk," inside the walls of a church. Inside the walls of a church, most of the money collected there and most of the time spent serving there benefits the care and feeding of the building, the pastor and the other believers within. How does this economic model compare with becoming poor so that others (outside the walls) become rich? I believe the two are in opposition and largely why western Christianity is in a tailspin having virtually no effect on the culture.
I have realized that time and money spent inside the walls is largely wasted. In fact it is strikingly similar to spending time and money on myself at the expense of others. Forgive me Father for I have sinned against you and against my fellow man who may die today without knowing Jesus. Show me the way outside the confines of the institutional church to bring glory to You and the gospel to the lost and dying.
Peace
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JB
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Post by JB on Oct 8, 2017 8:42:41 GMT -6
THIS POST IS FROM ERIC L. ON OCTOBER 5 HE WROTE TO ME: "I studied the passage tonight but was unable to post. Errors and malfunction using tapatalk app on android etc. This is the post content... ---
The true believer excels in everything.
*faith *speaking to others about Jesus *knowledge *keeping it real *love for neighbor
Why not then excel at giving?
Paul asks us to search our hearts and make a commitment to action... the grace of giving.
He points Jesus as THE example when he laid down his life.
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JB
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Post by JB on Oct 8, 2017 8:58:34 GMT -6
6 Accordingly, we urged Titus that as he had started, so he should complete among you this act of grace. 7 But as you excel in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all earnestness, and in our love for you—see that you excel in this act of grace also.
Excited about what the Macedonian churches had done (see vv.1-5), Paul asked Titus to give the Corinthians a chance to do the same. Titus already had a relationship with the Corinthians. He had probably already talked to them about what was going on in Palestine and mentioned the possibility of helping them the last time he was at Corinth. Paul implores the Corinthians to excel in the “grace of giving.” More faithfully to the Greek he says “see that you overflow with this grace.” The desire to give sacrificially is a gift of God. 8 I say this not as a command, but to prove by the earnestness of others that your love also is genuine.
Paul was never afraid to make comparisons. In fact, he encouraged Christians to compare themselves to and imitate other Christians who were doing things right. Here are some other examples of this: - In 1 Thess. 1:6 he wrote, “And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with the joy of the Holy Spirit.”
- A chapter later, In 1 Thess. 2:14, he said “For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews”
- And in his next letter to the Thessalonians (2 Thess. 3:9), Paul pointed out that he served their church without asking for compensation. He said he did that “not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate.”
- These statements were to the Thessalonians – one of the Macedonia churches he’s been talking about!
- Elsewhere, he said similar things – even to the Corinthians. Here are some brief quotes:
- “I urge you, then, be imitators of me.” (1 Cor 4:16)
- “Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.” (1 Cor 11:1)
- “Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.” (Php 3:17)
We shouldn’t shrink back from comparing ourselves or others to believers who’ve got it right. The “Hall Of Faith” chapter in Hebrews 11 is all about that – talking about the great men and women of the faith in order to teach the Hebrew Christians what it looks like to be sold out to God. But the reason for making the comparisons is not to induce guilt, nor is it to hold others up higher than they should be held. It is simply to help ourselves or others to grow by example. And in this case, Paul says it is to test the sincerity of their love by comparing their actions with the actions of others. 9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.
Ultimately, Paul offers up Christ – who was rich but voluntarily became poor so that others could become rich – as the model to follow. Jesus humbled Himself, as Paul said in Philippians 2:8. Remember how Jesus constantly borrowed everything? He borrowed food to perform His miracles, a coin to offer an illustration, a donkey to enter into the city of Jerusalem, and a tomb in which to be buried. He had nothing of His own, yet He owned everything in the universe. Luke 21:37 says that “ Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives.” He didn’t even have a home or a place to lay His head! When you realize He humbled Himself in this way for our sakes, in order to make us rich, it seems obvious that we should do the same for others in need. The greater the extent to which we are willing to impoverish ourselves for the benefit of another’s welfare, the more we are modeling Christ in our lives. 10 And in this matter I give my judgment: this benefits you, who a year ago started not only to do this work but also to desire to do it. 11 So now finish doing it as well, so that your readiness in desiring it may be matched by your completing it out of what you have. 12 For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have.
This section might be labeled “ What to do when you discover that over-committed yourself on your pledge cards.” Titus had visited these Christian the year before and told them about the needs in Jerusalem. They quickly gave what they had and eagerly promised to set money aside to help even more. They must have found themselves unable to fulfill their commitments. It reads like were waiting until they had everything they promised to give before giving anything. Paul says “Just give what you can. Don’t worry about what you don’t have.” This reminds me of organizations like Samaritan’s Purse, World Vision/Compassion International, etc. These organizations are trying to transform entire nations. They know if they ask you to contribute toward combating world hunger and taking the gospel to the nations, you’d feel incapable of making a difference. Instead, they ask you for $30/month and let you know that that is enough to feed Mwajabu in Tanzania for a whole month. You can’t wipe out world hunger, but you can give $30 a month! The point is, give what you have. Don’t worry about how much or how little it is. God’s more concerned about the heart behind the gift than the size of the gift. 13 For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness 14 your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness. 15 As it is written, “Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack.”
Q: Is Paul calling for socialism here?
The word “ fairness” here in the ESV is translated “ equality” in the KJV and NASB. It isn’t referring to everyone having equal amounts of money. It is about everyone having equal opportunities to meet needs and have their needs met. That is the theme of this section of Paul’s letter. You may sometime have needs that they can meet for you, too. That’s Paul’s sentiment here. His quotation in v. 15 is from Exodus 16:18 when the manna fell in the wilderness to feed 2 Million people. When they went out to gather the manna, some gathered more than others. Those who ended up gathering more than they needed gave to those who had less. It turned out that everyone had exactly as much as they needed. This parable reminds us that God is behind how much you have. If He’s given you excess, it is so you can give it to others who don’t have enough.
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elacey
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Post by elacey on Oct 8, 2017 9:12:16 GMT -6
THIS POST IS FROM ERIC L. ON OCTOBER 5 HE WROTE TO ME: "I studied the passage tonight but was unable to post. Errors and malfunction using tapatalk app on android etc. This is the post content... --- The true believer excels in everything. *faith *speaking to others about Jesus *knowledge *keeping it real *love for neighbor Why not then excel at giving? Paul asks us to search our hearts and make a commitment to action... the grace of giving. He points Jesus as THE example when he laid down his life. Thanks for posting this JB.
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elacey
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Post by elacey on Oct 9, 2017 21:38:52 GMT -6
6 Accordingly, we urged Titus that as he had started, so he should complete among you this act of grace. 7 But as you excel in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all earnestness, and in our love for you—see that you excel in this act of grace also.
Excited about what the Macedonian churches had done (see vv.1-5), Paul asked Titus to give the Corinthians a chance to do the same. Titus already had a relationship with the Corinthians. He had probably already talked to them about what was going on in Palestine and mentioned the possibility of helping them the last time he was at Corinth. Paul implores the Corinthians to excel in the “grace of giving.” More faithfully to the Greek he says “see that you overflow with this grace.” The desire to give sacrificially is a gift of God. 8 I say this not as a command, but to prove by the earnestness of others that your love also is genuine.
Paul was never afraid to make comparisons. In fact, he encouraged Christians to compare themselves to and imitate other Christians who were doing things right. Here are some other examples of this: - In 1 Thess. 1:6 he wrote, “And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with the joy of the Holy Spirit.”
- A chapter later, In 1 Thess. 2:14, he said “For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews”
- And in his next letter to the Thessalonians (2 Thess. 3:9), Paul pointed out that he served their church without asking for compensation. He said he did that “not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate.”
- These statements were to the Thessalonians – one of the Macedonia churches he’s been talking about!
- Elsewhere, he said similar things – even to the Corinthians. Here are some brief quotes:
- “I urge you, then, be imitators of me.” (1 Cor 4:16)
- “Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.” (1 Cor 11:1)
- “Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.” (Php 3:17)
We shouldn’t shrink back from comparing ourselves or others to believers who’ve got it right. The “Hall Of Faith” chapter in Hebrews 11 is all about that – talking about the great men and women of the faith in order to teach the Hebrew Christians what it looks like to be sold out to God. But the reason for making the comparisons is not to induce guilt, nor is it to hold others up higher than they should be held. It is simply to help ourselves or others to grow by example. And in this case, Paul says it is to test the sincerity of their love by comparing their actions with the actions of others. 9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.
Ultimately, Paul offers up Christ – who was rich but voluntarily became poor so that others could become rich – as the model to follow. Jesus humbled Himself, as Paul said in Philippians 2:8. Remember how Jesus constantly borrowed everything? He borrowed food to perform His miracles, a coin to offer an illustration, a donkey to enter into the city of Jerusalem, and a tomb in which to be buried. He had nothing of His own, yet He owned everything in the universe. Luke 21:37 says that “ Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives.” He didn’t even have a home or a place to lay His head! When you realize He humbled Himself in this way for our sakes, in order to make us rich, it seems obvious that we should do the same for others in need. The greater the extent to which we are willing to impoverish ourselves for the benefit of another’s welfare, the more we are modeling Christ in our lives. 10 And in this matter I give my judgment: this benefits you, who a year ago started not only to do this work but also to desire to do it. 11 So now finish doing it as well, so that your readiness in desiring it may be matched by your completing it out of what you have. 12 For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have.
This section might be labeled “ What to do when you discover that over-committed yourself on your pledge cards.” Titus had visited these Christian the year before and told them about the needs in Jerusalem. They quickly gave what they had and eagerly promised to set money aside to help even more. They must have found themselves unable to fulfill their commitments. It reads like were waiting until they had everything they promised to give before giving anything. Paul says “Just give what you can. Don’t worry about what you don’t have.” This reminds me of organizations like Samaritan’s Purse, World Vision/Compassion International, etc. These organizations are trying to transform entire nations. They know if they ask you to contribute toward combating world hunger and taking the gospel to the nations, you’d feel incapable of making a difference. Instead, they ask you for $30/month and let you know that that is enough to feed Mwajabu in Tanzania for a whole month. You can’t wipe out world hunger, but you can give $30 a month! The point is, give what you have. Don’t worry about how much or how little it is. God’s more concerned about the heart behind the gift than the size of the gift. 13 For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness 14 your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness. 15 As it is written, “Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack.”
Q: Is Paul calling for socialism here?
The word “ fairness” here in the ESV is translated “ equality” in the KJV and NASB. It isn’t referring to everyone having equal amounts of money. It is about everyone having equal opportunities to meet needs and have their needs met. That is the theme of this section of Paul’s letter. You may sometime have needs that they can meet for you, too. That’s Paul’s sentiment here. His quotation in v. 15 is from Exodus 16:18 when the manna fell in the wilderness to feed 2 Million people. When they went out to gather the manna, some gathered more than others. Those who ended up gathering more than they needed gave to those who had less. It turned out that everyone had exactly as much as they needed. This parable reminds us that God is behind how much you have. If He’s given you excess, it is so you can give it to others who don’t have enough. I failed to comment on the later part of this passage (a significant part) v13 thru 15. I dont know JB... an emphasis on equality sort of looks like a form of socialism to me. Or maybe better put, Socialism is an idea which is rooted in Christianity. This idea that those who have excess should give to those in need seems like common sense when one thinks about their fellow man in a loving and compassionate way. The world teaches us to embrace a competitive spirit... "Only the strong survive"... the opposite of what Paul is teaching here. He is saying that we are all in this together as we should help each other. If course giving does not necessarily mean money or treasure but could be non-material gifts. Sometimes you can just share your gift of knowledge, or reflection of your inner peace in some way (also a gift from God). Maybe its just inviting a neighbor whom we know is having a tough time going through divorce to have dinner. Whatever it is we have excess of... we must remember is a gift from God and He wants us to be generous and share.
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JB
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Post by JB on Oct 10, 2017 4:32:33 GMT -6
I failed to comment on the later part of this passage (a significant part) v13 thru 15. I dont know JB... an emphasis on equality sort of looks like a form of socialism to me. Or maybe better put, Socialism is an idea which is rooted in Christianity. This idea that those who have excess should give to those in need seems like common sense when one thinks about their fellow man in a loving and compassionate way. The world teaches us to embrace a competitive spirit... "Only the strong survive"... the opposite of what Paul is teaching here. He is saying that we are all in this together as we should help each other. If course giving does not necessarily mean money or treasure but could be non-material gifts. Sometimes you can just share your gift of knowledge, or reflection of your inner peace in some way (also a gift from God). Maybe its just inviting a neighbor whom we know is having a tough time going through divorce to have dinner. Whatever it is we have excess of... we must remember is a gift from God and He wants us to be generous and share. Eric - You bring up a good point. More broadly, Socialism as a human government institution is man's attempt to force us to do something that God has told us to do from our hearts. Don't get me wrong... politically, I'm as conservative as anyone. I'm in no way in favor of a socialist government. However, governmental systems are all insufficient human attempts to accomplish externally what God wants to do with us internally. Governmental laws are designed to make us good people, which we can't naturally be after The Fall. Do not murder, do not steal, etc., are part of every government. Even Kim Jong Un wouldn't legalize theft and murder among the populace. If he did, he wouldn't have any citizens left to rob and torture. Likewise, socialist governments are designed to force us to give to those in need, which God through through regeneration by the Holy Spirit wants to do inside us. The consequences of The Fall are personal, social, and societal, so they obviously bleed into what governments are established to govern. But governments cannot do what the Holy Spirit in us can do. Implementing and enforcing laws can't force humans to be good. They can't change us from the inside. And in some cases, such as socialism, I am of the opinion that they can in the end only accomplish the opposite of what they were established to accomplish.
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