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Post by Admin on Mar 29, 2020 10:17:50 GMT -6
Study Begins: March 29, 2020
Discussion Begins: April 05, 2020
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11 For God shows no partiality.
12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God 18 and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; 19 and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. 24 For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
25 For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. 26 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. 28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.
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John R
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Post by John R on Mar 30, 2020 5:48:24 GMT -6
Bible says it rains on the just and the unjust. This passage of scripture, Paul is emphasizing this fact that all of us whether with knowledge of the Law and God or not, know what the Law requires. Psalm 19 explains, "The heavens declare the glory of God....Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge." We are without excuse when it comes to sin and God is impartial.
"No excuses!" Jew and Greek are equally without excuse. Christian and Muslim, Atheist and Buddist, Agnostic and fill in the blank will all be judged against God's standard. We all have the same judgement coming and we should all be fearful of our propensity to sin. What can we do?
Paul changes direction and brings the sin problem even closer to home. Not only are we accountable to God for our sin, but we are not safe from God's judgement if we merely claim to know the Law we must also keep it, all of it!
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John R
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Post by John R on Mar 30, 2020 6:04:53 GMT -6
No escape for the knowledgeable, either. I know I am in trouble. If you really understand the Law and God's nature....you have to say - I have no chance to escape God's judgement and my only hope it to throw myself on His Mercy!
Have Mercy on me Lord!
God is watching, He knows our hearts and we cannot escape his judgement. Outward appearances are not obedience to His Law, physical labels, church attendance, family religious affiliation will not save us. We will not escape the day we stand before the Lord and account for our lives.
Blessings!
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JB
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Post by JB on Apr 4, 2020 20:01:44 GMT -6
2:11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
SUMMARY OF 2:11-16: Anyone who has the law will be judged according to its requirements. Anyone who does not have the law will be judged according to his or her conscience. Thus, both Jews and Gentiles are equally unrighteous. Because of that, both will die. Gentiles don't have the Jewish Law, so they won't be judged by the Jewish Law. but that doesn't leave them innocent. They have an internal sense of right and wrong – their consciences. God will judge them according to how they have lived up to their consciences.
Paul’s point here is that everyone is equally unrighteous. Whether or not a person has heard the Law is irrelevant. Goodness is good, evil is evil regardless of what someone thinks of it. Goodness and evil are defined by God, not by opinions of man.The Law isn’t some sort of magical incantation that suddenly saves you when you hear it. The Law defines righteousness. It is the standard for holiness that judges everyone whether they’ve heard or agreed with it or not.
I was a new teenage driver. I knew that in our state it was legal to turn right on red. As I approached the traffic light at the intersection of Main St. and Virginia Ave., the light was red. No one was coming, so I turned right and kept driving … until the cop made me pull over. The officer told me he was writing me a ticket for "failure to obey a traffic signal." I answered that I thought it was OK to turn right at a red light. He replied "yes, but you have to come to a complete stop first." I genuinely didn't know that at that time. The law I broke, I broke innocently. I broke the law even though I didn't "know" the law. I didn't violate my conscience. He gave me a warning ticket.
People who have heard the Law will be condemned by violating the Law.
People who have never heard the law will be condemned by violating their consciences.
So, will the people who do not have God’s Word perish?
V.15 says that enough of the law is written on their hearts that, if they obeyed it they would be saved (reread v. 26). But none do. No one infallibly lives up to law or conscience. Therefor all are condemned to death.
There is good news, though. Do you see that word “gospel” at the end of v. 16? Paul gives us a foreshadowing of it at this point -- “God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ.”
2:17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself ? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." 25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
SUMMARY OF 2:17-27: Obeying the law of conscience is more righteous than breaking the law of God.
Vv. 17-23, In case there’s any doubt, Paul again reminds the Jews that they are sinful.
V. 24, What an indictment this verse is! When I sin, I blaspheme God’s name among the rest of the world because I make God look bad to them.
Vv. 25-26, None of the things I do right have any value if I also do wrong. Righteousness is binary. There are no degrees of righteousness. I either am or I am not righteous - and only God is.
Paul reminds us that God’s concern is with who we are on the inside, not with what we’ve heard or done or how we were born.
2:28 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
SUMMARY OF 2:28-29: Only people with circumcised hearts are truly Jews.
I think it’s appropriate here to introduce a topic that will come out more fully later in Romans. Here, Paul says that without circumcision of the heart, these Jews aren’t Jews. They may have the right lineage, but they cannot claim to be Israel. Where does circumcision of the heart come from? From being in Christ. Christians are the true Israel, whether of Jewish descent or not. Compare this idea with the following:
“'The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will punish all who are circumcised only in the flesh-- Egypt, Judah, Edom, Ammon, Moab and all who live in the desert in distant places. For all these nations are really uncircumcised, and even the whole house of Israel is uncircumcised in heart.'" - Deuteronomy 10:16, “Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer”
- Jeremiah 4:4, “Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, circumcise your hearts, you men of Judah and people of Jerusalem, or my wrath will break out and burn like fire because of the evil you have done-- burn with no one to quench it
- Philippians 3:3 (written to Gentile Christians), “For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh
- Colossians 2:11-12 (written to Gentile Christians), “In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.”
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John R
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Posts: 182
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Post by John R on Apr 5, 2020 18:43:31 GMT -6
2:11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
SUMMARY OF 2:11-16: Anyone who has the law will be judged according to its requirements. Anyone who does not have the law will be judged according to his or her conscience. Thus, both Jews and Gentiles are equally unrighteous. Because of that, both will die. Gentiles don't have the Jewish Law, so they won't be judged by the Jewish Law. but that doesn't leave them innocent. They have an internal sense of right and wrong – their consciences. God will judge them according to how they have lived up to their consciences.
Paul’s point here is that everyone is equally unrighteous. Whether or not a person has heard the Law is irrelevant. Goodness is good, evil is evil regardless of what someone thinks of it. Goodness and evil are defined by God, not by opinions of man.The Law isn’t some sort of magical incantation that suddenly saves you when you hear it. The Law defines righteousness. It is the standard for holiness that judges everyone whether they’ve heard or agreed with it or not.
I was a new teenage driver. I knew that in our state it was legal to turn right on red. As I approached the traffic light at the intersection of Main St. and Virginia Ave., the light was red. No one was coming, so I turned right and kept driving … until the cop made me pull over. The officer told me he was writing me a ticket for "failure to obey a traffic signal." I answered that I thought it was OK to turn right at a red light. He replied "yes, but you have to come to a complete stop first." I genuinely didn't know that at that time. The law I broke, I broke innocently. I broke the law even though I didn't "know" the law. I didn't violate my conscience. He gave me a warning ticket.
People who have heard the Law will be condemned by violating the Law.
People who have never heard the law will be condemned by violating their consciences.
So, will the people who do not have God’s Word perish?
V.15 says that enough of the law is written on their hearts that, if they obeyed it they would be saved (reread v. 26). But none do. No one infallibly lives up to law or conscience. Therefor all are condemned to death.
There is good news, though. Do you see that word “gospel” at the end of v. 16? Paul gives us a foreshadowing of it at this point -- “God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ.”
2:17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself ? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." 25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
SUMMARY OF 2:17-27: Obeying the law of conscience is more righteous than breaking the law of God.
Vv. 17-23, In case there’s any doubt, Paul again reminds the Jews that they are sinful.
V. 24, What an indictment this verse is! When I sin, I blaspheme God’s name among the rest of the world because I make God look bad to them.
Vv. 25-26, None of the things I do right have any value if I also do wrong. Righteousness is binary. There are no degrees of righteousness. I either am or I am not righteous - and only God is.
Paul reminds us that God’s concern is with who we are on the inside, not with what we’ve heard or done or how we were born.
2:28 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
SUMMARY OF 2:28-29: Only people with circumcised hearts are truly Jews.
I think it’s appropriate here to introduce a topic that will come out more fully later in Romans. Here, Paul says that without circumcision of the heart, these Jews aren’t Jews. They may have the right lineage, but they cannot claim to be Israel. Where does circumcision of the heart come from? From being in Christ. Christians are the true Israel, whether of Jewish descent or not. Compare this idea with the following:
“'The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will punish all who are circumcised only in the flesh-- Egypt, Judah, Edom, Ammon, Moab and all who live in the desert in distant places. For all these nations are really uncircumcised, and even the whole house of Israel is uncircumcised in heart.'" - Deuteronomy 10:16, “Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer”
- Jeremiah 4:4, “Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, circumcise your hearts, you men of Judah and people of Jerusalem, or my wrath will break out and burn like fire because of the evil you have done-- burn with no one to quench it
- Philippians 3:3 (written to Gentile Christians), “For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh
- Colossians 2:11-12 (written to Gentile Christians), “In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.”
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John R
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Post by John R on Apr 5, 2020 18:50:46 GMT -6
JB,
I know we have had this topic discussed in the past when we had many more contributors. I discovered this as I read through the New Testament, it is very controversial to make such a statement in light of some interpretations of the End Times, New Jerusalem, the 144,000 etc. etc. etc. But I must agree with your interpretation and largely Paul's contribution to the cannon. True Israel are those whether of Jewish descent or Gentiles, who embrace the Lordship of Jesus Christ and who walk according to His statutes.
Blessings to you and thank you for your dedication to TruthSeekers.
John
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John R
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Post by John R on Apr 9, 2020 5:45:48 GMT -6
Truthseekers!
Where are you?
JB has dedicated his time and effort to making this a space for sharing and learning in a non-judgmental, safe atmosphere. In these difficult times, more than ever we should be here together sharing in God's word and lifting each other up. A month ago, the world as we know it changed and it will never be like it was. If you all don't understand that, spend some time with the LORD on your knees in prayer.
Please come back and bring Truthseekers back to life. Invite someone! We need to band together believers! Come on!
Blessings,
John
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elacey
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Post by elacey on Apr 10, 2020 10:44:54 GMT -6
I'm right here John! 🙂 This commentary is free association to my thoughts after much time studying, worrying and pondering. Basically I think too much at times. Best to just let it rip as they say. Here goes random... The Law is the full length mirror that shows us our heart. God is the silver backing to the mirror. No human peer can judge me nor can I judge them. We are all born a Gentile. We are reborn a Jew. One God. One church. ......... A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God. Romans 2:28-29 NIV bible.com/bible/111/rom.2.28-29.NIV |
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JB
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Post by JB on Apr 11, 2020 22:48:24 GMT -6
JB, I know we have had this topic discussed in the past when we had many more contributors. I discovered this as I read through the New Testament, it is very controversial to make such a statement in light of some interpretations of the End Times, New Jerusalem, the 144,000 etc. etc. etc. But I must agree with your interpretation and largely Paul's contribution to the cannon. True Israel are those whether of Jewish descent or Gentiles, who embrace the Lordship of Jesus Christ and who walk according to His statutes. Blessings to you and thank you for your dedication to TruthSeekers. John John,This will become even clearer as we progress through Romans, culminating especially in Romans 11.
It's important to clarify that I am not in support of "Replacement Theology," which teaches that God gave up on and abandoned Israel, took away their blessings, and gave those blessings to the church. That belief is very wrong, it is unbiblical, and it resulted in the holocaust.
Here's a summary of my viewpoint, which I believe will be borne out by the text as we proceed:
God's promises/covenants to Abraham… justification through faith (Genesis 15:6), innumerable offspring who would become a great nation (Genesis 12:2), salvation, becoming a blessing to every family/tribe on earth (Gen 18:18), the Promised Land - through his grandson Israel (aka, Jacob) and Israel's descendants… all of these promises are fulfilled in the church.
Neither Abraham nor Jacob got to see those promises fulfilled. God fulfilled them approximately 42 generations later through the coming Messiah - because of Abraham's trust in God, that is, Abraham's faith.
Throughout the future history, Abraham's descendants received a worldly fulfillment of those promises in the land of Israel. But God always wanted His people to take their eyes off this corrupt earth where sin, pestilence, coronaviruses, and death exist. He wanted them to realize that life beyond this earthly life - in the spiritual realm where there is no corruption - is where God's promises would ultimately be fulfilled… a return to Eden in direct and constant fellowship with God. His people loved this world too much.
n our TruthSeekers study in Genesis chapters 1-6 (https://seektruth.boards.net/board/25/genesis), I explained in great detail why I believe Adam and Eve were originally spiritual beings (in God's likeness/image) until they sinned - after which they were clothed with "skins," taking on corruptible bodies like we have now. That corruption was Adam's curse ("cursed is the ground because of you" and "you will return to it.")
Adam and his offspring would return to dust (Genesis 3:19) - the very same stuff out of which Adam was formed (Genesis 2:7) and which the serpent would now eat (Genesis 3:14).
In other words, by dying mankind would return to the dust out of which Adam was formed.
The salvation that God has offered mankind - which reverses the curse - was first offered to Jacob/Israel and his offspring, the Jewish race.
It was conditioned upon them being righteous. They tried, but they couldn't manage to live righteously by the Law. They were also supposed to be evangelistic, a light to the gentiles. They were to offer the promises to the Gentiles. They didn't do such a great job with that.
The rest of biblical history, beginning with Jesus Christ is about reversing the curse of Adam so that we will again become spiritual beings so that we can live with God in the heavenly realm.
The promises to Abraham, though they were fulfilled in this world, will be fulfilled more fully in the spiritual realm at the second coming of Jesus the Christ. We who are taken up with hum will be changed. Our corruptible bodies and this corruptible world will be replaced with a new earth.
We will, in short, become again like Adam and even before the Fall and will live in the fellowship with God that they originally had and lost through sin. That is what the grace and forgiveness od Christ brings to us.
With that backdrop – and admittingly leaving a whole lot out to shorten it some – you will understand when I say that the promises from God to Abraham, though fulfilled on the earth, were ultimately spiritual promises which would ultimately be fulfilled through Christ for the church. Israel was always the nation of God, sinful as it was. In fact, it's more accurate to say (though it is a lot to wrap your head around) that the church is and always has been the spiritual descendants of Abraham just as the new heaven and new earth will be the ultimate spiritual fulfillment of the Promised Land.
Tying this back to the subject at hand – and with apologies for how long this abbreviated discussion has become – we who believe in the Messiah, whom Abraham believed in through faith, will in Christ inherit the spiritual versions of the blessings that Abraham and his offspring received in this physical world.
More bluntly and succinctly, the church is the spiritual Israel.
Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ (that is to say, everyone who is part of the church, the body of Christ) will inherit the spiritual blessings of Abraham, regardless of whether they are Jewish of Gentile by nationality.
Anyone who rejects Jesus Christ (that is to say, everyone who is NOT part of the church, the body of Christ) will NOT inherit the spiritual blessings of Abraham, regardless of whether they are Jewish of Gentile by nationality.
That, I believe, is a fair summary of the clear teaching of Romans and of the entire Bible.
There is no "replacement theology" here. The church has not replaced Israel. The church is and always has been the just as the land of Abraham, spiritual Israel, and is made up of people of every nation and descent..
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